Relevant Christian Blog

I’m in the process of starting a “Revolution-like” church at a club here in Tulsa, Ok. Simply being in a bar with the potential for having a drink sheds so much of the pretense and the pretending that religion creates. And, yeah, I think Jesus would have had “church” in bars. He taught everywhere. He loved everywhere.

Peace,
Nate

In Mark Driscoll’s book “The Radical Reformission” he provides probably one of the clearest explanations of all sides of issue. He seems to have the best theological position in regard to church history and current culture. He also has been greatly informed by Ken Gentry’s work “God Gave Wine”.

Maybe I just agree with Mark’s conclusion because I myself enjoy a frosty libation now and then. Conscience and moderation are key. I would never have a beer with someone who struggles to remain alcohol free.

I know some guys who have very effective ministries in bars. I thinking very seriously about adding a microbrewery to the coffee shop that I open. I would employ one of my non believing buddies to run that aspect. Sort of a strange missional paradox.

Why wouldn’t you have bible study in a bar? I see nothing wrong with it. The drinking beer part gets tricky! I see nothing wrong with drinking however you have to be careful. As ladies at the last church my husband pastored we went out to Olive Garden for lunch. A couple of wanted wine and did not order because one of our guests was a recovering alcoholic. Don’t get drunk, make sure it is not a stumbling block to another person , besides that have fun!!

I’ve heard some sermons that might have been improved had the preacher indulged a little before!

What a ridiculous idea. People always say “Jesus went where the people were, so should we.” FYI – there were bars and taverns in the days of Christ but I don’t remember reading where he set up weekly meetings there. Come on, let’s not be ridiculous in our efforts here.

Church IN a gay bar? I went to the site (MySpace) and see pics of men holding each other. So are you preaching that they can’t retain that abominable lifestyle or are you just preaching acceptance – “Grace covers it all.”?

Jeff,
Would you mind exegeting for me what it means to be a stumbling block?
Thanks.

Why isn’t it funny if I’m a preacher?

I think it depends… are you bringing glory to God or are you looking for an excuse to have a beer. I think you can have a beer with others without needing to sit and have a Bible study. Jesus hung out with the prostitutes, but he didn’t prostitute Himself.

In other words, you can go in a setting and not take part in all aspects of that setting but still minister effectively. If the drinking is above and beyond normal, though, it can definitely distract from the message. It really just depends on what your focus is and how fine you walk the line of what is acceptable or not.

If you feel God calling you to do something then go for it, but make sure it’s to honor Him and not to draw attention to yourself.

Jesus did NOT drink beer and get drunk! Wine was a beverage back then much like lemonade or Pepsi is today. They drank it at meals. Anything that alters your senses (alcohol, drugs etc.) and has the temptation of overindulgence with harmful affects is to be avoided. There are numerous scriptures in the Bible that refer to this. If you are going to learn about Jesus, I hope you will be learning about this, too. Please do not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to believe. Jesus would only be going to bars to reach people, not to partake in the drinking. He loved people, not beer. Bars and bible study do not mix.

I love the fact that the post have just now gotten to the point of wine was like juice, soda, etc…. First of all how would you know what the alcohol content of the wine they drink? I didn’t see a disclaimer at the bottom of page that gave the content of alcohol in the wine that was consumed by anyone in the bible. Second, if the wine did not have a trace of alcohol then why does Jesus teach us not to a drunkard when consuming the wine of his day or today.

ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION 101
If theres no alcohol then there is no way of getting drunk.

Everything in moderation…. a little adultry, a little murder, a little lying, a little cheating, a little drug use. …. now that I said that…. I have had some very effective conversations in bars with people and some have even ended up at my church. Some had been away from the church so long that they didn’t feel worthy enough to attend there…. so I weave the Good News into the conversation a my local bar sometimes. I always find hurting people who need Good News there … and like I mentioned, some even receive it…. But let me reiterate …. the Everything in Moderation crowd makes the few hairs I have left on my head stand on end. Also, in a bar around these here parts … a person has to be 21 (an adult to get served ) so….. these adults make their own choices and they can always have a diet coke or water if they don’t want to drink beer. Footnote… most of the people I witness to in the bar are already career drinkers…. even Olympic status…..and God still manages to get through to them…. So go ahead….. Have your Pizza and Beer and Bible Study … just make sure you have cab fare for that weaker bro…. and give the name of the pub, time and date so I can be there……. See you all , and God Bless

Ok, I stumbled across this blog while searching for this particular verse in reference to a church having meetings at a brewpub.

Prov. 31:6 “Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.”

That said, I don’t believe in taking verses out of context, please read all of Proverbs 31 to gain a clear understanding. Please pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you and direct your path. I do this everday. Sometimes while drinking a great microbrew. So the Bible does indeed talk about beer, at least in the NIV translation.

My point…
I LOVE my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, his father, the Creator, God Almighty and his guide the Holy Spirit who leads our steps if we only listen to Him.
I LOVE His Word! It is truly Life and sustenance.
I enjoy Beer and Wine. Especially when pared with great food. What a blessing!
If you also enjoy a cool, refreshing beverage, even if it contains alcohol, don’t hide it. That could be a sign you have a problem.
If you don’t, don’t drink. Please don’t judge others according to your own social stigmas that have been drummed into you by overbearing religious zealots that are more interested in their religiousity rather than the state of your soul.

My final point…
If you claim to know the bible and read it and understand it, please cite your sources and references so that those of us who spend our time reading your thoughts can find out the basis for them. Many, many misunderstandings are simply straightened out by actually reading and correctly citing what God’s Word actually says. Not by trying to remember what you think you read or heard once. I had a friend once tell me that the bible said people of different races weren’t supposed to intermarry!!! But that’s a whole different blog.

“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Benjamin Franklin

As it happens, I have listed Scriptural reference for some of my thoughts here.

“And, yeah, I think Jesus would have had “church” in bars. He taught everywhere. He loved everywhere.”

–No, Jesus taught in the synagogue. Let’s be really careful here — Jesus loved sinners, myself included, but let’s be clear: He doesn’t condone sin!! He had to pay for it!!! NOT FUN!!

“To be completely honest…I am thinking about starting one myself. I have an aquaintance thru my fantasy football league who manages a local pub…with a great private room that we could use.”

–When we cut through the crap here, we’re looking for an excuse to turn Bible study into poker night. Ultimately, mustn’t we apply SOME reverence when dealing with God’s holy word?

“Church IN a gay bar? I went to the site (MySpace) and see pics of men holding each other. So are you preaching that they can’t retain that abominable lifestyle or are you just preaching acceptance – “Grace covers it all.”?”

–Thank you. The Gospel message — that is to say, the transforming power of Scripture is rendered useless in the absence of a penitent heart!! What happened to repentance!!???!!! Furthermore, the message you’re sending by having Bible study in a bar is that you’re the same as everyone else in the culture. Why should John Doe buy your God and His transforming power when John’s the same as you – where’s the transformation? We as Christians should appeal to John Doe by what makes us DIFFERENT!!!!

“Can you show me scripture where it is wrong to have a bible study in a bar?”

–1 Corinthians 8:9-13
But be careful that this liberty of yours does not become a hindrance to the weak. For if someone weak sees you who possess knowledge dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience be “strengthened” to eat food offered to idols? So by your knowledge the weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed. If you sin against your brothers or sisters in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. For this reason, if food causes my brother or sister to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause one of them to sin.

1 Corinthians 10:23
“Everything is lawful,” but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is lawful,” but not everything builds others up.

1 Corinthians 10:31-11:1
So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. Do not give offense to Jews or Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also try to please everyone in all things. I do not seek my own benefit, but the benefit of many, so that they may be saved. Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

Ephesians 5:15-21
Therefore be very careful how you live – not as unwise but as wise, taking advantage of every opportunity, because the days are evil. For this reason do not be foolish, but be wise by understanding what the Lord’s will is. And do not get drunk with wine, which is debauchery, but be filled by the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and making music in your hearts to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for each other in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

“This kind of study is not for everyone…it’s all about meeting the p.eople where they are.

Another way of evangelism”

–Do we mean to suggest that the quickening of the Holy Spirit and the expository preaching of His Word have become inadequate? God doesn’t need clever marketing techniques to reach His chosen people, and He never has. The apostle Paul knew exactly what his Greek audience would be listening for in a persuasive argument, and chose to leave it all behind — in this way, his ministry is effected by the power of God, and not in his own clever marketing technique.

1 Corinthians 2:1-5
When I came to you, brothers and sisters, I did not come with superior eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed the testimony of God. For I decided to be concerned about nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and with much trembling. My conversation and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on the power of God.

““Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Benjamin Franklin”

–Ben Franklin was a deist, and probably not the best source for a Christian perspective.

Glad to hear from you Jimmy From the dates on the last posting, I was afraid I missed the conversation. Thank you also, Joe, for your input. I think that if everyone agreed this wouldn’t be much of a discussion.

All I meant by expository preaching is uncovering the true meaning of Scripture. Dictionary.com defines exposition as “writing or speech primarily intended to convey information or to explain” and this is my only meaning.

While I agree that Jesus told stories to convey much of His message in parables, those were not intended to drive home the point for most of the listeners, according to Matthew 13:10-15

“Then the disciples came to him and said, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He replied, “You have been given the opportunity to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but they have not. For whoever has will be given more, and will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. For this reason I speak to them in parables: Although they see they do not see, and although they hear they do not hear nor do they understand. And concerning them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

‘You will listen carefully yet will never understand,
you will look closely yet will never comprehend.
For the heart of this people has become dull;
they are hard of hearing,
and they have shut their eyes,
so that they would not see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’”

As opposed to telling a story that would make the message easier to understand, it seems clear from the passage that Jesus gives His truth in parables for the expressed reason of excluding some of His listeners from the truth, according to His own purposes.